Why Ad Agencies Hate Going After New Business (And How to Fix It)
In this episode of the Knoodle Founder’s Hour, host Rosaria Cain sits down with Mark Sneider, founder of RSW, to unpack the often-dreaded task of agency new business development.
After a decade in corporate marketing and a stint running domestic operations for a global marketing research firm, Mark recognized a universal truth: marketing agencies do a great job managing their clients’ businesses, but they usually struggle to manage their own. Agency principals are often the ones left trying to make time for cold calls—a task they generally despise. That is exactly where RSW steps in, helping agencies find qualified leads, set meetings, and nurture prospects until they are ready to close.
In this episode, you’ll discover:
- The Myth of the Dead Cold Call: Why picking up the phone is still one of the most reliable ways to break through the noise, and why a consistent, multi-channel approach—including physical mail—is essential for standing out.
- The Impact of AI on Prospecting: How artificial intelligence is increasing productivity for list-building and meeting preparation, but also creating a cluttered market filled with over-promising competitors.
- The Reality of a New Business Director: Why the role requires a blend of strong sales experience, resilience, and a supportive, non-cutthroat culture to survive constant rejection.
- Navigating Market Uncertainty: How to handle unpredictable economic times and “marketer over-reactivity” through strategic program development and consistent outreach.
- The Power of Bringing Value: Inspired by advertising legend Leo Burnett, why giving away your best thinking and providing continuous strategic counsel is the ultimate differentiator in a crowded industry.
Whether you’re an agency founder, a sales professional, or an entrepreneur navigating market shifts, this episode is a masterclass in resilience, smart prospecting, and building meaningful business connections.
Listen to the full episode of the Knoodle Founder’s Hour podcast to learn how to turn missed opportunities into closed deals.
Full Transcript
Rosaria Cain 0:00
So, Mark, how did you fall in love with marketing in general? What led you in that direction?
Mark Sneider 0:09
You know, I was working at DDB in Chicago, in their media department, and thoroughly enjoyed it. That was a great experience. Foundationally, it served me really well, but I saw the other side. I saw the corporate marketers and the things they were doing, it just seemed like it had more dimension to it. They had greater control over, sort of the things that they were using to try and build their business. And it just intellectually and strategically, seemed like a more interesting place to be and then on top of that, I figured I’d probably make a lot more money in corporate marketing than I would as a media planner. And so, I went figured my easiest path was to go back to school and get my MDA, MBA and then sort of parlay that into marketing positions. But yeah, it was really, I think, sort of the the multi dimensional nature of the role, the more strategic nature of the role, the fact that you were managing your own business, you know, within the context, obviously, of a large organization, I found that to be really interesting,
Rosaria Cain 1:32
Well, and now you’re helping other agencies make money through new business, right? How did you, how did you go from point A to point B. So you went into corporate marketing, which I’m sure you represented some great brands.
Mark Sneider 1:47
Yep, Yep, absolutely.
Rosaria Cain 1:49
How did you go from that point to going back to the agency side? Well, sort of to help agencies and consult on new business,
Mark Sneider 1:56
Yeah. Well, you know, I love the agency world. I had a great time working for what was then Needham, Harper & Steers, and now is DDB Needham, I think, unless I got rid of that name too. But really enjoyed that space. Really enjoyed the marketing space, and it was after 10 years in corporate marketing, I got an opportunity to run the domestic operations for a firm called ACUPOLL research, or global marketing research firm that did primarily advertising testing and new product concept testing. So we were more of marketing consultants than we were geeky researchers and it was during that seven year stint at ACUPOLL that I actually became a client of RSW is a company that I, you know, run started in ’05 and run now the our sister company in London was using RSW word opened its doors in 1992 to help them, set meetings, find opportunities, and we were struggling to do the same thing. You know, it was the old case of the cobblers children, where you do a really good job of managing your clients, business and marketing, but you don’t do a really good job of managing your own and we were kind of in that situation where client work would always get in the way. Colgate Palmolive was my biggest client. So I was always out in New York meeting with them and and I really liked what I saw. We hired them out of out of London. I had a new business director over there who looked like they were part of ACUPOLL research. We gave them a list of companies we were interested in meeting with. Today, we build lists custom for every program and and they did a great job of getting doors opened. I was a guy going on the meetings and on the calls. We closed some nice business, and I had never really seen anything like it here in the States. I knew that there were telemarketing firms, and I knew there were one off guys and women with rolodexes, but nothing more strategic and nothing focused in the marketing services space and and what I saw in RSW was a chance for me to leverage my advertising experience, to leverage my marketing experience, and it was during my stint in corporate marketing that I had an opportunity to also serve as a head of sales as well as the head of marketing in a smaller CPG firm. But got some exposure to sales and so RSW really brought all three of those things together. And, you know, call me crazy. I had a really nice job with ACUPOLL. I had three young kids and a wonderful wife, and God love her, she gave me permission to take the leap off the cliff. And give it a run, and, you know, here we are, almost 21 years later, and still going strong. So, yeah, so it’s kind of crazy. It’s just one of those things where it’s, you know, that I believe that there’s a reason for everything, and, it all sort of led me to where I am today.
Rosaria Cain 5:19
Wow. So when you think of what you do, how would you break it down? For instance, like an elevator speech, on what you do and who you do it for
Mark Sneider 5:30
So we are in the business of helping marketing agencies and other professional service firms find qualified leads, set meetings and help our clients get closer to close. So while we don’t actually close business for our clients, we feel like we have an obligation to help them nurture prospects down the line and get them as close to close as we can. And that’s really, you know, everybody in this organization understands that the end game here is clients closing business. You know, it’s not just about getting meetings. You know, it really is about helping our clients find new business and grow their business. And so anything we can do, you know, getting you good quality meetings if you get busy and we’ve got to help you nurture that prospect, if we need to offer strategic counsel and talk through best ways to kind of move a prospect down the line. You know, we’ve been in this business long enough, and we’ve dealt with so many different situations that it’s, you know, we again, feel like it’s our obligation to try and help our clients, however we can to get them to close.
Rosaria Cain 6:50
So new business has really changed over the last three decades. Was all about phone calls. There’s a big move where people say the cold call is dead. And I’ve heard this, and I’ve hoped that it was true, but it’s actually not quite true for us anyway, that you build a content machine and people will just come to you. So is that one of the challenges you’re facing? And what are some of the challenges?
Mark Sneider 7:22
I mean, I think our biggest challenge that we’ve had to deal with over the last 21 years is staying half a step ahead of the marketplace, and that’s through smart investment and the right technology tools and the right intel gathering tools and just recognizing that we can’t sit still, that we’ve always got to be exploring new approaches. And frankly, the way we get most of our meetings, believe it or not, is via phone, email deliverability is a constant and growing challenge. We can work our way around it by being smart about what we put into emails, how frequently we send emails, how customized those emails are. Is there, you know, finding their way to prospects that we’re trying to connect with. But phone is been a reliable platform to help us spray through and we’ve had to invest in tools like one we have called Orum, which is a power dialer that allows us to move through phone calls at a much faster pace, and just gives, you know, makes it more productive for our new business directors to, you know, to find opportunities and be smart about the outreach when they’re not having to, you know, one off Dial every single prospect in a list of 2,3,400, you know, people they’re trying to make connections with. So I think it’s you know, that has been a challenge in general. The other thing that I think has helped us be successful is the fact that we we are multi channel in our approach. There are lots of folks out there that only use LinkedIn or only use email, and, you know, I’ve said this from the start, that you just never know what somebody’s going to be most receptive to if that email breaks through. And we have another platform we use, called Instantly, that helps us get those emails through. You know, is that prospect going to be receptive to that email? Are they going to be more apt to answer their phone? We use physical mailings as part of our outreach to try and make connections. Because A, there aren’t that many people doing it. And B, and because of that, it’s a very uncluttered environment and it’s a great way to begin to build awareness for our agency clients brand, as we’re calling in advance of that mailing and following that mailing, and then throughout, you know, the the time that follows. So, so multi channel is key. Consistency is key. You know when, when I was running the domestic operations for ACUPOLL research, we would always, with good, intense start a program and do some outreach, and then client work would get in the way, like I said before, and so being able to dedicate ourselves to consistently reaching these prospects. We’ve had some prospects that have sat in databases of our clients for years, and we continually reach out, and they continue to not respond. And then all of a sudden, one day, they either wake up and realize they have a need, or finally take notice of our agency client trying to make connections with them and the door is opened and, you know, we’ve got our client in front of that prospect. So multi channels key, consistency is key. You know, trying new approaches is critical, you know, but we’re up against, you know, not only technology and Intel tools and making those investments. But you know, you mentioned cold call is dead. We’re also up against a lot of over promises out in the market today. I know we sit on an agency list, and I get emails all the time from competitive firms or individuals that claim that they’re going to get hundreds of meetings for for me, thinking I’m an agency. When I first started the business in 2005 I kind of characterized it as a used car sales industry. There was a firm called Flat Iron out of New York that used unemployed actors as their new business directors because they sounded really good on the phone. That firm’s no longer around.
Rosaria Cain 12:21
I going to ask, did that work?
Mark Sneider 12:24
No, no. I mean, people sound good, but that’s not the only criteria we use, and it’s kind of still that way today, and that has just sort of, you know, I mean, I went into this business wanting to do it right and be forthright and honest and transparent in the way we operate, and not be like the rest of the industry and so, you know, we people we bring in. They possess good, solid values. They represent the, you know, the kind of character and personality that we want in this organization. You know, people all try and help each other around here, recognizing, again, at the end of the day, that it’s about, you know, making our clients lives better.
Rosaria Cain 13:19
Is it the best job in the world or the worst job in the world? New Business Director,
Mark Sneider 13:27
Oh. New Business Director?
Rosaria Cain 13:28
Well, you’re the ones making the cold calls, right?
Mark Sneider 13:31
Or, yeah, you’re fucking them, not me. New Business Director, it is a tough, tough job, and we put our new business director candidates through a lot of gates as we interview them, give them writing tests, you know, just making sure that when they walk in, they’re walking in with eyes wide open and they know what it is we expect them to do. When I first started the business, my criteria for hiring was strong marketing background that also liked and felt they were good at sales, kind of like I came from a marketing background, and I had the opportunity to move into sales and really liked it. Well, that was the wrong model. Today, we look for strong sales people first and then find people that have some semblance of marketing experience of either work for or worked with agencies so they understand the space. So it’s a brutal job, because they’re constantly beating their heads against a wall and being told no, but they know what they’re walking into, and it’s great when you know, great meetings are set, they’re, you know, they’ll reach back out to me. It’s great when clients, when business, it’s great when it works. And you know, fortunately, it has for the last, you know. 21 years and but I don’t think the new business directors would characterize I guess it depends on the day. I don’t think they’d ever save us the worst shot they ever had, at least I hope not. And there are days when things go right, where they probably would lean towards feeling like this was one of the best jobs they’ve ever had.
Rosaria Cain 15:25
They must like to hunt.
Mark Sneider 15:28
They have to.
Rosaria Cain 15:30
Must be a passion for them.
Mark Sneider 15:32
Yeah, and, you know, there are sales environments that just really don’t lend themselves to sort of a nurturing culture and that’s what we have here. You know, where it is a sales environment, but people genuinely care for each other and our new business directors aren’t competing against each other. I mean, they may want to, you know, be the best that week for getting the most meetings, but it’s not like a sales team that sort of button heads and trying to outdo each other. And it just not that way around here. And I think that makes for a more pleasant, manageable experience than, you know, a typical sales room.
Rosaria Cain 16:21
Not like boiler room?
Mark Sneider 16:23
No, no. It’s funny you mentioned that, because I remember early on, somebody asking me if, if we operated like a boiler room, you know, if we just had a bunch of people sitting in the basement, you know, making phone calls and, God, that would be miserable.
Rosaria Cain 16:41
That’s like a radio job.
Mark Sneider 16:46
Have you been there?
Rosaria Cain 16:47
Yeah, radio was a jungle.
Mark Sneider 16:51
Oh, gosh, I’m sure.
Rosaria Cain 16:52
I can relate. Well, tell me about how AI has affected the the rhythm of prospecting. I’m sure it’s a great help in some ways, and maybe a challenge in others.
Mark Sneider 17:05
Yeah. I mean, from a productivity standpoint, it has and will continue to be a great help for RSW. We have an AI team that we put together here comprised of new business directors and list people and our VP of Operations and finding new ways to build better lists, finding new ways to build lists more quickly and efficiently, finding ways to use AI to help our New Business directors better prepare their clients for meetings, you know, research prospects as they’re reaching out to them. So there are a lot of real advantages we’ve we’ve actually built a model we call the AI brand compass model that helps agencies better position themselves and better organize a communication on their site for AI mediated search. And so it’s helping us sort of broaden our offering, I think, make our general offering more strategic and thoughtful. So it definitely is an assist in a lot of ways within the organization, both internally and externally, as we reach out and we prospect from a competitive standpoint. I think you know, where I see AI pop up a lot. I see it pop up a lot in the competitors that are claiming large numbers of meetings and making claims that it’s a lot of what they do is very AI driven without any real detail about sort of how that all works. So I think it just it’s created a lot of noise, which just makes it harder for us to break through and tell our story. You know, as we’re reaching out to prospective agencies, and our attempts to try and bring them on board, you know, from a new business director prospecting standpoint, I think it’s probably been more of a benefit than it’s been a hindrance to them. So, yeah, I mean, you know, obviously Jerry’s still out. I think there’s a lot going on right now. I think my guess is we’ll probably see things settle in people, you know, agencies will figure out how to use it to their advantage. You know, marketers will find ways to create greater, you know, efficiencies in the things they’re doing and just. Like any new tool, you know, there’s a lot of excitement and interest, and I think, I don’t think agencies are going away. I think maybe the agency that’s just a doer agency and just takes orders that may be challenging for that kind of an agency to survive, I think it’s the agency that’s smart and strategic and can show their clients the way forward and the value that AI can bring in bettering the plans that they’re putting together for their clients. I think it’s those agencies that ultimately will survive and thrive in an environment like this.
Rosaria Cain 20:44
So shifting gears just a little bit, when did you have your first entrepreneurial moment? You strike me as the type of guy that had a paper route and a lemonade stand.
Mark Sneider 20:55
Well, I’m sure I did. I thought about that question when you asked it. And I remember back in the day I was probably, I don’t know, 10,11, years old, holding almost like little mini carnivals in our backyard, where we had, you know, games and things like, and we advertised it, you know, with signs around the neighborhood and charge people to come in. And that was probably my very first experience in the world of being an entrepreneur. Got my two sisters involved and my cousin involved in running it. And I think we did maybe just a couple of times during a couple of summers, but it’s definitely when you ask that question, it was like a memory that I had sort of, you know, sort of set on the sidelines, and hadn’t really thought about it in a while. But it was a fun time and and definitely the first serious entrepreneurial experience.
Rosaria Cain 22:08
Well, when did you decide to do it as an adult? So you had obviously quite a bit of experience before you took that leap. Was there an event or a person that impacted that decision?
Mark Sneider 22:24
You know, I would say, not really. I always had sort of the entrepreneurial bone baked into me. I started a business with a friend of mine while working in consumer packaged goods marketing, it was a video instruction manual concept where we would go out and sell a marketer on the value of advertising on this video instruction manual, say, for a new baby car seat would go to a baby manufacturer so that they could drop samples into the video. And the problem was, we were on the tail end of video, and things were starting to move to CDs and then eventually online, and so that that was like a major attempt at trying to start something up on my own. But as far as, like, just, you know, I guess my father was a self employed lawyer, you know, I grew up going down to his office and helping him organize his files and learn about the things he was doing and, you know, was really, I mean, he busted his butt and worked a ton, and, you know, did a really great job of making our family comfortable, and, and just yeah, so it was really sort of indirectly, he could not tell me a thing about marketing or advertising. He knew nothing about it. So it was really not him. And unfortunately he actually passed right before I started RSW, and so, you know, unfortunately, wasn’t able to experience it. But I think that just watching him and seeing how he operated and, frankly, how much he cared for the people he was servicing, you know, at the end of the day, his world of lawyering and my world of running an outsourced agency, new business and dealing with clients and helping clients probably not fundamentally, not too terribly different. So, yeah, I’d probably have to say my dad. More than anything.
Rosaria Cain 25:02
Do you remember the moment you decided to do it and jump in?
Mark Sneider 25:07
Yeah, well, you know, I was a client for two years of RSW, and like I said, really liked it. I knew that it was a big risk and making the move. And so what I worked out with my former partner was, you know, if I can get three of these accounts sold, then I’m going to make the leap and make a run for this. And I did, and and it was kind of crazy, you know, like I said, I had three young kids and a good paying job, and it was nerve wracking for a while. You know, I remember having dinner with my wife early on, you know, she and I were out and telling her I needed her to go back to work. And she said, if I go back to work, I’m going to have to pour all my money into daycare to watch our children, so we’re not going to make it any better. And you know, there were events like that that were, were definitely trying, but yeah, I mean, I think it was just seeing what RSW in London could do for their clients, and knowing that, again, what that business involved was, was a things that I, you know, were the things that I really enjoyed doing, marketing, sales, advertising and it just, you know, I don’t, I don’t remember it there being like one Day or one moment, but it was sort of this, just slow, and then, you know, eventually quick evolution into, okay, I’m going to do this. Here’s an opportunity I did feel like, because these guys had been around since 92 that in the UK wasn’t wholly different from the US. You know, on some levels, it certainly is and was. But feeling like, Okay, I’m going to take the chance, but I feel like I’m taking a calculated, more conservative chance by making a move into a business that really didn’t exist. So I was building a category and RSW at the same time here in the States, but building a business that had a pretty mature presence in the UK. So I knew, I knew it could work.
Rosaria Cain 27:38
So what’s the insight behind it? So, an insight being what you thought you would achieve for your clients. What’s the, what’s the crazy insight that drives this business?
Mark Sneider 27:58
The crazy insight that drives this business. You know, it’s, it’s really the, I mean, it sounds a little cliche, but it’s the people, and it’s the right people. You know, you can have all the great tools in the world, but if you don’t have good, smart people working on your business, understanding what the end game is for the client, you know, and I think that bringing lots of value beyond the scope of what the client is asking us to do, and that can take shape and many different forms. It might be an interesting article. We found that we think might be worth our agency clients sharing with a prospect they met with, or it could be something bigger, like, you know, we have a webinar we give to new clients called “Getting to Close” that helps frame how to best operate in our space, and, you know, bringing that kind of value. So I think it’s, you know, right people, it’s bringing value. When I was in the media business, there was an article that was reposted in Ad Age, I think it was in 1985 a reprint of Leo Burnett’s benediction speech when he was leaving the agency in 1967 and he basically said, “When the apples that sit on Burnett’s desk are just the apples for eating and don’t represent the essence of who they are, and what got them to where they are that he said, that’s when you take my name off the door.” And if you look at his speech, he talks a lot about value and what got them to where they are, and his and kept them where they are was bringing constant attitude value to their clients lives, and that principle has been part of our existence. I share it with every new employee and they recognize that that’s the way we’re going to ultimately win in this business, because it is still kind of a used car sales business, and we’ve got to be able to differentiate ourselves and it’s a great way of doing it.
Rosaria Cain 30:29
See, I think the insight for your business is so much more simple than that. You know what? I think the insight is? Ad agencies hate going after new business. They do.
Mark Sneider 30:39
There you go.
Rosaria Cain 30:40
It always ends up being the principal of the agency.
Mark Sneider 30:43
You’re absolutely right.
Rosaria Cain 30:44
No one wants to make phone calls. They despise it.
Mark Sneider 30:47
Yes.
Rosaria Cain 30:48
They’re like the knight on the white horse that rides in.
Mark Sneider 30:52
There you go.
Rosaria Cain 30:54
That’s how I see it.
Mark Sneider 30:55
No, well, you’re absolutely right. I mean, we, you know, I’ve mentioned cobblers, children have shoes.
Rosaria Cain 31:02
And it’s true.
Mark Sneider 31:02
And that’s true. I mean that’s why we’re in business and so yes, appreciate that.
Rosaria Cain 31:11
I just thought I’d add that, if anyone ever asks you that again, I think it’s so much more simple. You do what no one wants to do and love it and your people love it.
Mark Sneider 31:20
We do, we do.
Rosaria Cain 31:21
And so I think that’s a really great thing. So as you are a leader, how many new business directors do you have? Right now,
Mark Sneider 31:28
We have 13 new business directors.
Rosaria Cain 31:30
That’s robust. That really is. What makes a good new business director and what makes a good leader to be the conductor of of all of these symphonicly.
Mark Sneider 31:42
I mean, a good new business director, you know, understands the importance of bringing value. They have a stick-to-it-ness about them. They’re constantly thinking about new ways to break through to the prospects that they’re trying to reach out to. And you know, they work good collaboratively, you know, probably like, you know, in an agency’s world with their clients, and understand just the value and importance of all of those things. So it’s not, you know, we’ve had some new business directors that we brought on board that treat it just like a sales job, you know, and they’re really one dimensional and how they operate, and that just, you know, that’s fine for some sales positions, but it’s not, you know, selling ethereal agency services is not like selling, you know, radio time or where you have a very defined sort of set of parameters that you’re selling. And so it just makes it that much more challenging. And new business directors that get that and can work with our clients to, you know, operate more strategically to that end, you know, are going to be successful. I mean, from from my standpoint, it’s really, you know, it’s all about listening. It’s all about empathy. It’s all about really giving employees the the the permission to to do things on their own, you know, to some extent, and, you know, and just being there as a cheerleader and being there as a problem solver, you know, and showing the organization that you know, in addition to the one guy that you know sells for us at I’m also selling for the organization. You know, I’m not just sitting back and letting it all happen and hoping it all works out. You know, I’m as deep into it as the rest of them and as committed to the success of the company, you know, as much as they want it to succeed. So I think those you know, I mean, when I started the firm, I wanted to bring all the good things into it that I had experienced through previous jobs, and keep all the bad things out. And, you know, one of those good things was just being good to people and giving people a second chance. And, you know, not managing with an iron fist, but really managing by trying to be, you know, a good partner, and I don’t want to say a good friend, but you know, just a good partner. And, you know, and working with the people that I’m working with.
Rosaria Cain 35:01
Have you had some difficult times in your time there? So for instance, the agency business, and probably you’re in the agency business overall, is very reactive to current events, for instance, like right now or so, this hasn’t been great. We’re all limping along, getting through it.
Mark Sneider 35:25
Yeah.
Rosaria Cain 35:26
How have you navigated through those experiences and events?
Mark Sneider 35:31
Yeah. I mean, when the pandemic hit, I thought it was the end of the world, the end of our world. You know, I thought, how are we going to survive this thing? And you know, thank you for, you know, the PPV money, you know, thank you for clients, dialoguing with us and finding ways to make it work, and showing them that, you know, there was still business to be had out there, which there was. And we’re, we’re dealing, I mean, I dealt with that in ’07 and ’08 with the recession. And, you know, the same sort of challenges existed. And you just keep your you know, the the beauty of our business, not that it’s perfect in this way, but you know, when things are a little bit tougher, people need new business, not that it automatically makes us to go to but it makes it a little less painful when we’re dealing with situations like we’re in right now. I think the big difference today, it just feels like this is there’s there’s less predictability. And I think that, you know, if we can just sort of settle in and be a little bit more predictable and not get jerked in a million different directions every single day. We’ll find our way through it when we turn the corner after the first half of last year, we started to see more clients getting meetings, more clients winning business on the agency search side, I manage a small, you know, agency search business started to see a little bit more activity there so, and that’s kind of carried into the new year, not as well as we’d all like, But it’s slowly getting there and hopefully we’ll see that continue to change. But it’s just, you know, it’s the agency, you know, it’s less I think about agencies being overly reactive, and just the, I’d say it’s, it’s marketers being overly reactive, you know, pulling back, you know, kind of freaked out as to what’s going on, not knowing what move to make, how to invest and all those things, you know, begin to trickle down to the agency and trickle down to us. And, you know, all we can do is just work it hard and be smart about how we’re putting our programs together, and maybe it means reaching more people to find that one prospect that you know is right for the picking. So it, yeah, it’s, you know, definitely has been it. We’ve had our ups and downs, you know, the last 21 years, just like agencies have, and we’ve, you know, we’ve lived it right along with them.
Rosaria Cain 38:46
So how does that impact your marketing?
Mark Sneider 38:50
Um, you know, I don’t want to say it doesn’t, because from the very beginning, I I believe that the best way forward was to give it away, to give away our thinking. Let people know. Give people the things they need to try and do what we do, or give them advice on things they can do to make what they’re doing better. And we’ve stayed true to that through all of these, you know, these three events, the recession, pandemic, and now what we’re dealing with today, I think it one of the things we recognize about midway through our existence was that because we were so content heavy, pushing so much content out to prospects, that there were some prospects who kind of didn’t even know what we did, that we were an outsourced new business firm for marketing service agencies. They thought we were just nice guys and women pushing out good content. So I think the one thing, the one thing that has changed a bit over time, not just recently, but over made the last 10 years, is just being a little less subtle about who we are and what we do. Not not going, you know, full on sales mode, but just making people aware of what we can do for them, in addition to, you know, sharing lots of good content.
Rosaria Cain 40:31
That good old fashioned positioning statement.
Mark Sneider 40:34
Oh, totally, yeah.
Rosaria Cain 40:35
So needed for everybody. Well, tell me about what you do when you’re not working. What keeps you grounded? What do you do for fun or relaxation?
Mark Sneider 40:45
Yeah, so I like to run. I’m not like a long distance runner, but I like running physically, mentally. It’s a great release. I have been part of a men’s nonfiction book club for the last five years. And so enjoy that you know, a lot of good conversations about some really interesting topics, from John Lennon and Paul McCartney a book called John and Paul: The Love Story, to a book about Genghis Khan, you know, kind of cuts across the wild spectrum of non fiction and so that I have painted, and I need to get back on the horse and and start painting again. But, and then I like gardening. I like, you know, I have a flower garden. We have a vegetable garden. I tend to those more than my wife. I just enjoy, you know, that. And then I think, really, the thing that keeps me grounded through all the insanity we deal with in this world of advertising and marketing is just, you know, really my faith and just, you know, the old, you know, do not be afraid. Things will work them so, you know, they’re they’re themselves out and, and I think that just gives me a general calm, knowing that we’ll figure it out, you know, and so that that has been, you know, particularly, particularly helpful for me.
Rosaria Cain 42:34
Well, if you were going to write a book, what would the title be?
Mark Sneider 42:39
Oh, boy. There is something around the topic of agencies, like agency archetypes and or principal archetypes. I’ve dealt with so many different agencies of so many different types over the years, and so many different personalities that, you know, I think there’s an interesting book to be written that is a little social psych in terms of its bend, a little entertainment value, in terms of, it’s bend, because the world of advertising and agency is, you know, can be rather humorous at times. I asked myself that question probably about 15 years ago, and I think I started writing something, and it lasted about a week, and then it went away and hasn’t resurfaced until you asked me that question here today. So I would say, you know, something around that more of a light hearted, interesting book that might benefit a startup agency and might assist a marketer looking for a certain archetype of an agency.
Rosaria Cain 44:10
Kind of like a matching of agencies and needs?
Mark Sneider 44:14
Yeah. Could be, could be, yeah. So, yeah. So we’ll see. Maybe, you know, maybe we’ll, get there one of these days.
Rosaria Cain 44:22
What about you would surprise people?
Mark Sneider 44:28
I wrote it down and I forget what I wrote down. Oh, yeah, so and I don’t maybe this would surprise people, maybe not. If my wife would have let me, I would have gone into politics.
Rosaria Cain 44:52
Oh, that’s good, that’s good.
Mark Sneider 44:56
But had I gone into politics, my wife would have divorced me.
Rosaria Cain 45:01
I guess she made it clear.
Mark Sneider 45:05
Yeah. She just doesn’t look too highly on politicians. But I grew up in Chicago, my family on on different levels, my uncles and my father, on some level were they were involved in the politics of Chicago, which you can only imagine, Chicago politics was a little crazy, yeah, but, you know, got to go to events that, like my mother didn’t want to go to. So my dad would drag me along. And I just always, and I used to volunteer. I still do volunteer. That’s, it’s as close as I can get to be a volunteer or a politician. And so I really sort of enjoyed it, just a whole concept of it. And, you know, partly helping people, partly, you know, being strategic and creative. But my the my only hope is, I think my daughter, she I think she’s got the political sort of action bone in her body, so maybe someday I’ll be her campaign manager.
Rosaria Cain 46:20
Or her conciliary.
Mark Sneider 46:23
What’s that?
Rosaria Cain 46:24
Or her conciliary?
Mark Sneider 46:26
Yeah, right.
Rosaria Cain 46:28
Great advice.
Mark Sneider 46:29
Yeah.
Rosaria Cain 46:30
Well, this has been just great. I really appreciate the time, and thank you spending time on the Knoodle Founder’s Hour.
Mark Sneider 46:38
Yeah, that was great. Great questions. You know, too often questions are pretty staid and boring, but not these. They really forced me to think about the answers and dig back into the archives, and that that makes for a fun interview. So really, really appreciate you making the time and and interviewing me today.
Rosaria Cain 47:02
Well, there’s nothing state and boring about you. Mark, been good all around.
Mark Sneider 47:08
Thanks. Rosaria. Great. You. Take care.
Rosaria Cain 47:12
You too.
Mark Sneider 47:13
Bye.